Mantling, the Prisoner, the Wanderer, and so on. Secondly, yes, the Shezarrine has a particular divine relationship with Lorkhan. Those are profoundly unreliable sources ( as I've discussed), whereas one might imagine that actually going to Cyrodiil centuries before Tiber Septim, looking at it, and seeing that it was temperate then, just like it is in Oblivion, might constitute pretty convincing evidence that Cyrodiil was never a rainforest.ĬHIM is not what you think it is, and it is downright disigenuous to ever bring it up as a tool in versus debates.Īnd even if it was what you imply, the OP explicitly disallows its like.įirstly, it's 'Shezarrine'. This leaves the main sources for Tiber Septim reshaping the land of Cyrodiil as being those commentaries (demented ramblings of a cultist) and Heimskr (demented ravings of a fanatic). Heck, the argument that it is and that Tiber Septim had it has to do with the Xarxes commentaries suggesting that CHIM is how Tiber Septim reshaped Cyrodiil to no longer be jungle: except that, if you accept Online as canon, we know that Tiber Septim never did that because Cyrodiil in Online is conspicuously not a jungle. It is an abstract religious ideal, sought out by Psijic monks. CHIM is like moksha: it's a spiritual state in which you transcend this world and have some sort of unmediated contact with the divine. If we delve into extra-canonical material, we can get a clearer idea of it: CHIM is an idea that is part of the Psijic Endeavour, and it is explained here. It is only referenced once in canon, in the Mysterium Xarxes commentaries, which are the IC ravings of a Daedra cultist. Let me remind you: CHIM is a purely hypothetical state of spiritual enlightenment. It's telling, I think, that despite the OP clearly stating 'no god like beings', your argument so far hinges on the Numidium and a complete misunderstanding of CHIM. We are talking about the Thirty-Years-War-inspired Empire and the proto-industrial Fire Nation, compared to TES, which is a medieval setting. I think they're bad arguments, but he puts in the effort.īut look. I've argued with Madgod a lot, and to his credit, Madgod at least provides sources and tries to make coherent arguments. You cannot credibly argue for a medieval military force defeating the late-Renaissance gunpowder armies of the Empire.